Lobbyist Says Babbitt Talked About Campaign Contributions
But Babbitt says he has 'no recollection' of discussing Indian donations to the Democrats
WASHINGTON (AllPolitics, Oct. 30) -- A lawyer and longtime political associate of Interior Secretary Bruce Babbitt testified today that Babbitt talked about political contributions when he went to lobby him on an Indian casino permit application. But Babbitt told senators he didn't remember any conversation along those lines.
"At some point, the secretary asked me, 'Do you have any idea how much these Indians, Indians with gaming contracts ... have given to Democrats?'" Paul L. Eckstein quoted Babbitt as saying.
"I said, 'I don't have the slightest idea,'" Eckstein said.
"And he said, 'Half a million dollars,'" the lawyer-lobbyist said. "The conversation ended pretty shortly after that."
But in his testimony, Babbitt disputed Eckstein's account of their July 14, 1995 meeting. Asked about talk of campaign contributions, Babbitt said, "I have no recollection of any conversation to that effect."
Babbitt denied that political pressure from either the White House or the Democratic National Committee led the Interior Department to reject a proposed casino opposed by rival tribes that donated heavily to the Democrats.
"It [the casino decision] was made in a correct and proper process in every respect," Babbitt said. (448K wav sound)
Eckstein, a onetime Babbitt confidant, represented three Wisconsin tribes of Chippewa Indians who unsuccessfully sought Interior Department approval to add a casino to a struggling dog track in Hudson, Wis.
Sen. Fred Thompson's Senate Governmental Affairs Committee is looking into whether $268,000 in political donations to the Democrats from Indian tribes opposing the casino played a role in the Interior Department's ultimate decision to reject it.
Babbitt said he had no contact with former White House aide Harold Ickes on the issue, even though he said he probably told Eckstein that Ickes wanted him to make a decision on the casino permit.
Babbitt called it "just an awkward effort to terminate an uncomfortable meeting on a personally sympathetic note."
Thompson asked Babbitt, "So you misled him?" Babbitt wouldn't agree to that, and compared it to someone telling another person that they have to go because they have a phone call waiting.
"I think you're getting in awfully deep water here, but that's up to you," a frustrated Thompson told Babbitt, the most senior Clinton Administration official to testify before the committee yet.
Committee members focused sharply on whether Ickes ordered Babbitt to make a decision on the casino permit.
In his opening statement, Babbitt admitted he had "muddied the waters" with his previous, conflicting accounts of the July 14 meeting. The secretary first disputed saying he had had contact with Ickes on the matter, but later said he did invoke Ickes' name because Eckstein was persistent and Babbitt simply wanted to end the discussions.
'I would have left'
"He could have just said, 'Leave'?" a Senate lawyer asked Eckstein.
"I would have left," Eckstein said. Eckstein also noted that Babbitt's comment about Ickes came near the start of their meeting, not the end. (160K wav sound)
Asked about that by Thompson, Babbitt said, "Maybe the remarks didn't have the intended effect."
In a related development, Attorney General Janet Reno today confirmed she has opened an initial inquiry of Babbitt under the requirements of the Independent Counsel law. Reno said the 30-day review of allegations regarding Babbitt's actions in the casino permit matter began Oct. 14.
In his appearance before the committee on Oct. 8, Ickes denied pressuring Babbitt, saying, "Nobody ever tells Bruce Babbitt what to do."
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