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Jersey Man Stabs, Pushes Ex and Baby Through 3rd-Floor Window
Aired July 30, 2012 - 20:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RITA COSBY, GUEST HOST: Breaking news tonight. A young mother, her newborn baby just 3 months old, viciously attacked as she walked into her own home, the mother holding the tiny baby in her arms when she`s pushed out of the window, falling three stories to the ground, reportedly landing right on top of her 3-month-old son. In a stunning miracle, both the mother and the baby survive.
When the suspect`s allegedly caught on grainy surveillance video making his escape, cops say he heads home for a nap. But when he learns that cops are hot on his trial, he reportedly hides out, get this, in a refrigerator.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He is 20-year-old Frederico Bruno (INAUDIBLE) details of this attack are so horrific, first stabbing his ex-girlfriend viciously several times, when her friend said, I`m going to call 911, stabbing her several times. Then police say he turned his attention back to his ex-girlfriend. With their 3-month-old child in her arms, they say, he pushed them both out a three-story window.
Then as if all of that wasn`t bad enough, Bruno climbed down a fire escape the three stories, picked up a table and he beat his ex-girlfriend again with the table as she lay in critical condition with their son underneath her. He is extremely dangerous.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: And good evening, everybody. I`m Rita Cosby, and in for Nancy Grace. Thank you so much for being with us tonight.
A young mother and her 3-month-old infant barely survive a three-story fall after Mommy`s pushed out of her home window in a late-night attack.
For more on this developing and terrible story, let`s go to Michael Board. He`s a reporter with WOAI radio. Michael, tell us what happened here.
MICHAEL BOARD, WOAI RADIO: Well, Rita, what I want to know and what the cops will not tell us is what kind of drugs was this guy on when this happened. I can`t wait for the trial to start so we can start hearing about tests of what was in his bloodstream because not only did this guy get in a fight with his ex-girlfriend, who at the time was holding their baby, he pushed them out of their three-story window.
And then instead of checking to make sure they were OK, he climbed down three stories and then started, allegedly, according to the police complaint, beating her with a barstool that he found there down on the ground, and then took off running. I mean, who does something like this?
COSBY: You know, Michael, it is unbelievable! As you point out, first this attack that he`s accused off, and then when he gets a -- it`s a metal barstool, he goes down and then goes for more, is that what you`re telling me?
BOARD: That`s right. He -- you know, most people, when they would see something like this, they would -- you know, if this were an accident, they would make sure that the other person was OK, you know, maybe, Oh, my God, I didn`t know that was going to happen. Are you OK? Let me get an ambulance. That would be a normal reaction, right?
Well, this guy, instead of checking to make sure that his own child is OK, he started beating his ex-girlfriend with a metal barstool, and then maybe figured out what he was doing was wrong. He took off running in this case. Unbelievable!
COSBY: Unbelievable and absolutely shameful!
Let`s got to Brett Larson, morning anchor with IQ News 106.news -- 106.9. Brett, I want to ask you, when you hear all of this -- walk us through sort of the scene where this first initial attack happened. As we just heard, you know, there were two attacks, but -- and, obviously, two even attacks within the house. But describe this home where the first attack took place.
BRETT LARSON, IQ NEWS 106.9: Well, you know, it`s just such an unbelievably crazy thing. I mean, they come home. He`s hiding out in the apartment, apparently letting himself in with keys that he already had. He starts to attack the mother`s friend. When she tries to call 911, she starts screaming, he stabs her in the face multiple times.
The mother comes out holding his baby, and he starts stabbing at her and then shoves her -- as you just mentioned, shoves her so hard with such force against the window that she pushes the air-conditioning unit out the window, along with her and the baby. They fall three stories to the ground.
She lands on top of her child. And then as we just said, he goes down there and beats her with a barstool. It`s unbelievable. He takes off. He goes on the lam for a couple days. They find him -- the cops find him hiding out in an empty apartment. He`s hiding in a refrigerator, after tip from family led cops to him.
COSBY: You know, Brett, you talk about this guy. He`s what? He`s stabbing -- first, he`s attacking the friend.
COSBY: And then he goes to attack his ex-girlfriend while she`s holding their baby...
LARSON: Their baby.
COSBY: ... a 3-month-old baby boy?
LARSON: Yes, their baby, which, fortunately, from all reports we`ve gotten, the baby did not suffer any stab wounds. So if there is any -- any good part of it -- unfortunately, the baby remains in very critical condition, and the mother is in a medically-induced coma. It`s just -- it`s all around terrible!
COSBY: It is. Michael Conte, crime reporter with "The Jersey Journal" -- Michael, describe sort of this place, this home where this took place. He knows this because he lived there. He had the key, right?
MICHAELANGELO CONTE, "JERSEY JOURNAL" (via telephone): He did. He let himself in, apparently. Shortly after they came home, the attack began. It`s a tall, five-story building, and the apartment was on the third floor.
COSBY: What type of weapons were used? We understand there were weapons within that home that were used. And do we know how many times both of these women were stabbed? And was the baby stabbed?
CONTE: Police have said that the -- each woman has been stabbed -- was stabbed multiple times. The ex-girlfriend`s friend was stabbed numerous times about the face with a kitchen knife and a meat cleaver. They didn`t say what type of weapon was used to attack, the ex-girlfriend, but she was stabbed around the back of her neck, making police suspect that she had the child in her arms and had turned and bent over to protect him.
COSBY: So she was trying to protect the baby during this horrible, brutal attack, is that what you understand, Michael?
CONTE: Police say that`s what the wounds might suggest.
COSBY: One of the things, Michael Board -- we understand that she actually fell on top of the baby, you were saying. That`s incredible. Three stories, right?
BOARD: Three stories out the window. The air-conditioner apparently got pushed out to the side. They both fell down. The mom fell on top of the child, which is why it`s a miracle this child is still alive.
And one other thing that we need to mention here in this story -- and this is -- this is a very important part of this story -- the relationship that Frederico and his ex-girlfriend had was a very rocky relationship. We`re told that police were called out to this apartment several times. And get this one, Rita. The ex-girlfriend had a restraining order out on Frederico. He was not even supposed to be near her.
COSBY: But he had the key. Do we know why he still had the key? Is it possible that maybe she forgot to change the locks on the place?
BOARD: No idea. I mean, why -- you know, if you put a restraining order out on a guy and you know he has keys, shouldn`t that be the first thing you do? I don`t know. Apparently, you know, this wasn`t a new thing. It (ph) had been out there for a while. And like I said, she had a restraining order on him. It`s just a tragic situation.
COSBY: It is. And the other thing, too, Michael Board, there`s that fire escape, as you pointed out. What I think is so horrible about this story -- the initial attack is bad enough, and then when he climbs down the fire escape and goes after her for more?
BOARD: I don`t know why. Why would someone do that? You know, it`s inconceivable why somebody would continue the attack at that point, why after falling three stories, he would feel the need to, apparently, according to this complaint, beat her several more times with this chair before running off. That`s why I said, you know, I want to know what kind of drugs were in this guy`s bloodstream.
COSBY: Yes, and so far, we don`t have any evidence of blood (SIC), do we, Michael Board? Do we know if he was on drugs or not?
BOARD: We don`t know. We know that he`s in police custody. He`s in jail right now. So you know, that`s one of the things when you get booked into jail, they take blood samples. That`ll come in trial. And you know, I`ll be very curious to hear -- as a reporter covering the story, I`ll be very curious to see when this comes around for trial, you know, what sort of evidence they come up -- what this guy was on.
COSBY: Michael Conte, crime reporter with "The Jersey Journal" -- Mike, when you hear this story, too -- we understand he pushed her while she`s holding the baby. This is their son, their beautiful little, you know, 3-month-old boy. She`s holding the son. He`s pushing her with such force, not only does the air-conditioner go through the window, they go through the window.
Can you describe -- was the window sort of halfway open? Do we have a sense of, like, how this air-conditioner was positioned?
CONTE: I don`t know. But I know that when I saw -- I viewed the building from the rear, the entire window was gone, no air-conditioner -- no window at all. The cord for the air-conditioner was hanging out the window, and police said the air-conditioner struck an air-conditioner in a window below it, and that was gone, as well. I don`t know how they were set up, but they -- they just fell right through it.
COSBY: Marc Harrold, former officer, Atlanta Police Department and also attorney -- Marc, when you hear all this -- it sounds like he must have pushed her very hard. Do you think it was a one-time push? Do you think it was multiple pushes, again, where this air-conditioner was to go through the window, her and her baby?
MARC HARROLD, FORMER OFFICER, ATLANTA POLICE DEPARTMENT: Well, I`m just speculating. I think he did push her hard, obviously. Sounds like she had turned around with the baby in her arms to defend herself. She had absolutely no chance to ward him off either in the apartment or when he followed her down there. She was pretty much defenseless. I`m sure she was basically trying to protect the child, which makes sense why she fell on the child -- she had turned and he pushed her.
How many times he pushed her, I don`t know. It was obviously very intense because he not only pushed her as many times as he had to to get her out the window, he actually follows her down.
COSBY: And Dr. William Morrone, medical examiner, forensic pathologist -- Dr. Morrone, can you tell what kind of injuries were sustained from the fall? It`s a three-story fall holding her baby. She lands on the baby, too, it`s amazing that they both survived. Truly is a miracle.
Can you tell the kinds of injuries that were sustained from the fall versus the stabbing? And also, what other injuries may have happened inside that home?
DR. WILLIAM MORRONE, MEDICAL EXAMINER/FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Stabbing wounds are going to be very specific. They`re going to be deep and they`re going to be bleeding.
Wounds from the fall are going to be like blunt force. They`re going to be fractures. There`s going to be bruises. And if there`s internal bleeding, it`s not going to exit the body. Now, based on how she fell, you usually fall on heavier, more weighted parts of your body. If she fell on her head and her neck, she would have been dead. So she may have fell on her limbs or her buttocks or on top of the baby in a kneeling position.
But the wounds from the stabbing are going to be very specific. They`re going to be bleeding and they`re going to be deep. And stab wounds are deeper than they are long.
COSBY: Leslie Seppinni, clinical psychologist and author of "Who Is Casey Anthony?" -- Dr. Seppinni, when you hear all these background stories, someone, to be so angry, to stab the friend first, then goes after his ex-girlfriend while she`s holding his bobby, and then to push her with such force to fall three stories down, then go down again, and according to the accusations, hit her with a metal stool -- that is incredible anger, correct?
DR. LESLIE SEPPINNI, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: It`s an incredible amount of anger. And men generally don`t harm their children unless it`s for revenge. So if there was some type of protective order, if there was some history of domestic violence, then that would seem in line with what men do when they want to get rid of the woman and hurt the baby.
However, in this case, I also think there may have been some type of drug like PCP or something else involved because of the amount of energy he had.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So horrific. With their 3-month-old child in her arms, they say he pushed them both out a three-story window, crashing to the ground below.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The 3-month-old son in extremely critical condition. They were still trying to stabilize him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: And I`m Rita Cosby, in for Nancy Grace. A man brutally stabs his ex-girlfriend while she`s holding his 3-month-old son. And then that`s not bad enough, he also stabs her friend. And then he pushes his girlfriend and the baby through the window. They fall three stories and miraculously survive. So why would somebody do this?
Well, let`s go to Brett Larson, morning anchor with IQ News, 106.9. Brett, the other thing that`s so -- I mean, this whole thing is just so horrible, but one of the things -- he`s lying in wait. You mentioned he has the key. He goes in, what, he`s hiding out and then suddenly pops out? And this happens in the morning, right, Brett?
LARSON: It happens early on a Friday morning. He had clearly been in the apartment. We don`t know exactly how long he had been waiting in the apartment. We mentioned he had keys, so he let himself in. He knows where he is. And then he goes on this just horrific attack.
And you know, it`s not the first time that he`s had some run-ins with the law. He`s got a little bit of a history there. But after the attack, goes home, takes a nap, and then when he finds out the police are after him, hides in a refrigerator and waits for cops to come and get him. Obviously not waiting, knowing they`re going to come get him, but is just there waiting when they come get him.
COSBY: Michael Board, I just think it`s incredible! He goes home and he`s take a sleep. Meanwhile, you know, she`s there clinging for her life, as is the baby and as is her friend. It`s just astounding to me.
But Michael Board, let`s talk about this escape that we were just talking with Brett about. He gets out. He goes down. First he hits her again with this metal stool. But he also -- he`s escaping through a fire escape. There`s some grainy surveillance video that catches him sort of going through -- you see this sort of figure going down through a fire escape. And then he goes home and sleeps.
And then where does he go? Is he -- is he caught nearby? How far is the distance?
BOARD: It`s pretty close by. It`s the same building. There was a vacant apartment there. Apparently, there was still a refrigerator in that vacant apartment. And he decided that was going to be the best place he could crawl inside.
What I`m surprised about is I thought refrigerators were airtight. At least, I know my refrigerator at home -- you know, sometimes I have a little trouble pulling it open. I thought refrigerators were airtight. Maybe this one was unplugged so it wasn`t airtight. But you know, it`s amazing he didn`t suffocate in that refrigerator hiding from the cops. Maybe that would have been poetic justice in this case.
COSBY: Yes, it should would have been. And what, he`s cowering in the refrigerator when they find him? Is that the deal?
BOARD: Yes, he was -- it was, you know, just a normal refrigerator. This was one of the -- it just opened from the side. And he had hidden down and sort of crawled inside of it and contorted himself to fit inside and closed the door behind him.
COSBY: Michael Conte, crime reporter with "The Jersey Journal" -- Michael, I understand also it was sort of an all-out look for this guy, needless to say. You`ve got two women clinging to life. You`ve got a 3- month-old baby. And then this guy`s on the loose. How do they actually sort of circle around him? And I understand they also had to pull in the SWAT team, is that right?
CONTE: Well, the police chief held a press conference hours after the incident, and all the media was there. The pictures went out right away. They declared a manhunt. They said it was priority number one for the department.
But apparently, really, the break came when a family member dropped a dime on him from an adjacent apartment to where he was found. And even so, it wasn`t so easy to find him. Police said they searched the building for three hours with dogs until they came upon him. So it was an all-out search, and I guess it took about a dozen hours to find him.
COSBY: Sergeant Ed Ciempola with the commander. (SIC) He is a sergeant -- rather, commander with the Somerset County SWAT team. Sergeant, why the SWAT team in this case? Why were they called out? And how do you sort of get a plan of action here?
SGT. ED CIEMPOLA, COMMANDER, SOMERSET COUNTY SWAT (via telephone): Well, there`s a lot of reasons why you call a SWAT team out. In this particular situation, just the sheer propensity for violence this individual has -- I mean, he`s capable of injuring somebody he purportedly loves, a child that he created, and pushes them out a third floor window and stabs the woman multiple times, stabs her friend multiple times. So you already he someone that`s obviously displayed a great deal of violence. That`s one reason to call the SWAT team out...
COSBY: And Sergeant, can I ask you a question? What do you make the determination of just using, you know, the regular units versus SWAT? What makes that call? Like, who determines that?
CIEMPOLA: Well, the commanders of the police department will determine if the situation fits the criteria for calling out a SWAT Team. This individual is believed to be armed and dangerous and he is barricaded inside some sort of large structure like an apartment building. So that`s why you call out a SWAT team.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When she came home just about 7:00 o`clock with their 3-month-old son and her friend, they say he attacked. With their 3- month-old child in her arms, they say he pushed them both out a three-story window, crashing to the ground below.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: And I`m Rita Cosby, in for Nancy Grace. A man is accused of brutally stabbing his not just ex-girlfriend while she`s holding his baby, but also a friend. He also pushes the ex-girlfriend through a window. Miraculously, she survives, she and the baby after they fall three stories down.
The guy is found not surrendering. No, he goes over and first he beats her more. And then guess what? When cops come, he`s hiding in a refrigerator.
Let`s go to Marc Harrold. He is, of course, former officer, Atlanta Police Department, also an attorney. Marc, what do you think, also? They get the tip, first of all, I`m happy to hear, in this case, relatives, which, by the way, obviously, if anyone sees anything questionable, if it`s a family member, you got to turn them in. Thank goodness a family member called in with a tip in this case that led authorities to that refrigerator in this vacant building.
But how do you sort of weed through these tips, especially when they come from a relative? How do, you know, authorities sort of weed through and determine if this is a valid tip or not? And what do you think their reaction was, Marc, when they found him in the refrigerator?
HARROLD: Well, I don`t know how many tips that they had. Obviously, anyone in this proximity who has a relationship, you`re going to take them a little more seriously. He had made statements to other family members. I think he tried to blame her and said she tried to stab him, with the baby in her arms, which makes no sense, of course, at all.
But I don`t know how many tips they got. You`d actually go through -- you`d probably follow up on as many as you could. They said that it was the first priority of the department, and I`m sure that it was, for the duration of time where they were looking for him.
As far as finding him in the refrigerator, it does sound like they did a pretty extended search even of that building, and then came back around and found him. So I agree, it -- it sounds like maybe he laid in wait and had a plan at the beginning, but he certainly didn`t have much of a plan at the end. And I think he was just looking for a place to hide.
COSBY: Yes, it sure seems like it. Michael Board, it sounds like he was hiding out there for a bit, and that was the only place, correct?
BOARD: That was the only place you can go and the only place you can hide.
You know, Rita, one other thing I`d like to bring up in this case, and you know, what is unbelievable about this, looking forward to this case -- you know, he`s in jail now. He`s going to go on trial for this. He`s facing charges right now of attempted homicide. He tried to kill these people. That`s what, basically, the charge is.
This stunned me. I don`t know if this stuns you or not, but the maximum sentence for attempted homicide is 20 years. So this guy...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m shocked. Like, it`s crazy scary. I feel bad for the baby and for his mom.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Witnesses say the unidentified former girlfriend was thrown out with her baby boy in her arms.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That wasn`t the end of it. He got on the fire escape. He climbed down. And he then viciously beat her again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: And a brutal attack and the woman holding her 3-month-old baby, miraculously survived. She is brutally stabbed by her ex-boyfriend, who also, by the way, stabbed her friend as well, and she survives.
For the very latest, let`s go to Brett Larson, morning anchor with IQ News 106.9.
Brett, tell us again, what happened, when he`s lying in wait, and then attacks both these women and this baby is in her arms?
BRETT LARSON, MORNING ANCHOR, IQ NEWS 106.0: The baby -- his baby is in his ex-girlfriend`s arm. He is hiding out in their apartment, letting himself in with keys that he has. And when they come home, he goes on the attack, first attacking the girl`s friends, when she tries to call cops, stabs her multiple times in the face with a -- with a kitchen cleaver, and then when the -- when his ex-girlfriend comes into the room with -- holding their 3-month-old baby, he goes after her, and then pushes her with such crazy force that she ends up getting thrown out the third story window, including knocking the air conditioning unit out the window.
And then fall to the ground on top of her baby. Not through the wood -- not out of the woods yet, he climbs down the fire escape and then beats her with a metal bar stool before he runs away and hides. Cops finding him hiding out in a refrigerator in an abandoned apartment very nearby.
COSBY: Yes, cowering in a refrigerator. Incredible, Brett.
Let`s go to the caller, everybody. We are also taking your calls. Also be sure to follow us on Facebook and Twitter.
Let`s go to Tasha from North Carolina who`s on the line. Tasha, what`s your question tonight?
TASHA, CALLER FROM NORTH CAROLINA: Actually I have three questions.
COSBY: OK, make them quick if you could.
TASHA: OK, does he have any prior convictions? Has he ever been violent with other girlfriends before? And are they going to do a mental evaluation on him?
COSBY: All great questions.
Let`s go to Michael Conte. First of all, any violence in his background, prior convictions?
MICHAELANGELO CONTE, CRIME REPORTER, JERSEY JOURNAL: Police would only say that he has had run-ins with the law before. They would not -- they didn`t speak about prior convictions.
COSBY: And do we know, Brett Larson, if they`re going to be doing a mental evaluation? I`m sure they will. You also mentioned they`re drug testing him as well, correct?
LARSON: There`s going to have to be a drug test given the severity of what he`s gone through and certainly, you know, he`s being held now on $300,000 cash bond, so I`m sure he`s going to be run through the gamut of tests.
COSBY: Is there any problem with mental history? Do we know anything, Brett, if there was any mental history with him? Any issues?
LARSON: We don`t know of any mental history. We do know, as we were just mentioning, we do know he has had a few run-ins with the law. We also know she had a temporary restraining order against him so this wasn`t a surprise.
COSBY: Michael Board, what I think is unbelievable, he claims to relatives, what happened? What is his side of the story here?
MICHAEL BOARD, REPORTER, WOAI NEWSRADIO: Well, we know after this incident, according to the criminal complaint, that he went home and according to family members, he either took a nap or crashed out over some drug binge after this because he was crashed out on the couch for the rest of the day after this happened.
What we`re told, there was one report out there that he told a family member that this ex-girlfriend attacked him, that while she was holding their basically newborn child, she was swinging a knife at him and he was just trying to defend himself and that`s why he shoved her so hard she felt out the window. You know, of course police investigators --
BOARD: You know his criminal --
COSBY: Unbelievable, Michael. Let me just get this straight. He`s claiming she`s holding their baby, a 3-month-old baby, she`s stabbed right in the back of the neck and she -- he`s saying she attacked him? And what, did the friend attack him as well? And then, what, she attacked him again when he fell out -- when she fell out the window, too?
BOARD: And that`s what we know is that the -- that the stab wounds were to the back of this ex-girlfriend, so she had her back turned to him, obviously, whoever was attacking her she had her back to him. That`s how she got the stab wounds, but yet this guy seems to claim to family members that no, she was -- she was holding my baby and still swinging a knife at me, and it was all I could do but to push her out the window, which I`m sure will be looked at and I`m sure that`ll be his defense when he goes to trial on this.
But, you know, the evidence is -- the preponderance of evidence in this case shows a completely different story.
COSBY: Yes, it certainly does. Let`s go to the attorneys, let`s go to Jennifer Smetters, family law attorney, Dwane Cates, defense attorney, and also Kirby Clements, defense attorney.
Jennifer Smetters, you know, this is going to be a leap to say I was defending myself. And by the way, I was defending myself also after she fell out of the window with my baby and then I ran after her with a metal stool. I was defending myself again when I was beating her one more time.
Explain that one, Jennifer. This guy`s got a -- this guy has go a very tough defense.
JENNIFER SMETTERS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: Without a doubt. I mean, here we`re going to look at the situation in terms of this temporary restraining order or this order of protection. In that order, she would have had to have gone before a judge saying that she most likely fears for her life and the life of her child. She had to give sworn testimony to convince a judge to enter that order. And if it was still in the temporary stages, that tell me that the judge hadn`t heard his side yet.
Sometimes, the receiving end of those type of restraining orders, these men can get very, very angry. I don`t know what provoked this absolute unexplainable rage, but people have a very, very difficult time making any jury buy it. That`s for sure.
COSBY: You bet. Self-defense, I think, is an enormously -- Kirby Clements, you explain this to one to me.
KIRBY CLEMENTS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, at this point, it`s very early on. Number one, as to the knife wounds, we`re not quite -- we`re not quite sure whether those knife wounds are in the center of her back or are in the upper part of her neck back, like he was in front of her. That`s number one. But I thought the main defense. Secondly, he may have been high on some drugs, we don`t know. And lastly we don`t know whether --
COSBY: What -- so, wait, wait, wait, so that`s his excuse, Kirby, to go and do it and then go down and beat her again?
CLEMENTS: Well, and also I do have a question about this whole beating her with a stool? Who said that? I mean obviously she didn`t say it, so I`m not even sure that`s altogether accurate. He obviously has a tough time, he pushed her out of the window, he stabbed the other -- the other young lady, and he stabbed this woman.
COSBY: And, and also, Kirby, Kirby, the one thing you left out he was lying in wait, too. He`s in the apartment, hiding in the apartment, waiting for her to come home. There`s a restraining order against him. He`s obviously, you know, furious about something. And obviously he`s got a hot head to lead to that restraining order to begin with.
CLEMENTS: So not true.
COSBY: He`s lying wait, Kirby. But let`s talk about the lying in wait in the apartment. Where is the self-defense, Kirby? You haven`t explained any of that to me.
CLEMENTS: Well, I`m not even saying I want to go with self-defense at this point. It`s early --
COSBY: I want you -- I want you to -- this is what he`s claiming, according to a family member, that he was defending himself. She`s holding a 3-month-old baby, Kirby. You explain this to me. His baby, and then what, she`s going after him? And she`s the one with the stab wounds, not him? You explain this, Kirby.
CLEMENTS: The only thing I can tell you at this juncture is it`s early on --
COSBY: Yes, I`m speechless, too, Kirby.
CLEMENTS: I have to see -- I have to see where the knife wounds are on her. I`m not saying we`re going to go with that. He could have made those statements in his correct-out, drugged-out mind. I`m not saying he was on crack, but whatever he may have been on may have --
COSBY: Yes, because you know what, Kirby? No logical person could say that it was self-defense, then he goes and beats her again. He had to have been on something, because I`m telling you, it is -- you know, uncomprehensible, incomprehensible, incomprehensible.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The details of this attack are so horrific.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A confrontation stabbing allegedly at the hands of the 6`1" 165-pound Bruno. Stabbing his ex-girlfriend with their 3-month-old child in her arms. The police say he pushed them both out a three-story window.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: And let`s go to the attorneys. Let`s go to Dwane Cates, defense attorney.
We just heard Kirby`s reasoning, oh, he was on drugs. So that`s why this happened. So far we don`t know even if he was on drugs.
And, Dwane, you explain this. The guy is claiming it was self-defense. She`s holding the baby, and she`s being stabbed, apparently there was a meat cleaver, there was a kitchen knife that he uses first on her friend and her. She falls out of the window and then according to cops, then she`s beaten again. If that`s not bad. And first of all, it`s amazing she`s survived. This is three-story fall which his incredible, Dwane. But then in addition to that, cops say he came out, took a metal stool, and kept beating her.
You give me the defense on this one. I can`t wait to hear it, Dwane.
DWANE CATES, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, let`s talk about the self-defense first, you know.
COSBY: Yes, please. Because that`s just seems -- that`s like a magical answer. You know?
CATES: I got the answer. There are only three people in that apartment and there`s only of them that made a statement about what happened inside that apartment and --
COSBY: And guess what, guess what? There`s only one who`s able to see.
COSBY: Yes, you know what, Dwane?
CATES: Well, that`s right, but he -- the only one who made --
COSBY: Because by the way -- by the way.
CATES: He`s the only one who made a statement.
COSBY: Well, no, no, no. The other thing, too, by the way, separate than all of this, the amazing news, and I do think it is incredible, everybody, that these three people survived. Of course one is a 3-month-old baby. But then you`ve got two others. The girlfriend in a medically induced coma clinging to her life tonight.
CATES: Yes, but the only statement --
COSBY: Dwane, wait a second.
CATES: The only statement that we have --
Dwane, Dwane, I`m not done. Dwane, I`m not done. And then the second one is in stable condition. By the way, the other thing, Dwane, there are neighbors around, apparently neighbors called the cops, so guess what, maybe neighbors saw some pretty pertinent information like him beating her on the head after she fell through the window.
CATES: Yes, but the neighbors weren`t in the apartment, they didn`t see what happened. Everybody keeps saying he threw her out the window like he picked her up and threw her out of the window.
COSBY: But you know -- but you know what -- OK. All right. All right. Dwane, Dwane.
CATES: Let me talk a little bit.
COSBY: Wait a second, Dwane. Did she want to, like, go through the window? Did she want to go for a fly with her 3-month-old baby? Give me a break.
CATES: Well, there`s an air conditioner in the window, they could have been struggling, he pushes her, she falls against the air conditioner, the air conditioner is not attached to it, and then it fell out the window.
COSBY: But he is still pushing her. He is still pushing her. He`s still pushing her. And tell me -- what, did she -- what, did she go running towards the air conditioning on her own? Is that what you`re going to tell me, Dwane?
CATES: No, he pushes -- but so what? There is a difference between pushing somebody against an air conditioner and throwing somebody out a window.
COSBY: Dwane, Dwane. The bottom line is, the bottom line is, she goes through the window, three stories, and the bad thing is, Dwane, not does he go for help at that point, Dwane, no, he doesn`t do -- say it was accidental. I`ll even give you that one, Dwane, which I find hard to believe after he`s stabbing her upstairs, but he`s first stabbing her, he`s stabbing the friend then she goes through the window, OK, with the baby, and then no he doesn`t call the ambulance, he doesn`t call 911, and say oh, my goodness, my girlfriend and my baby are down there.
No. He goes down on the fire escape. There`s video of him going down. And then apparently takes a metal stool and starts beating her again. You tell me that this is a man who wasn`t happy --
CATES: Again but there`s no video of him beating her with a metal school? We don`t know who said that.
COSBY: We don`t know that. By the way, you don`t know that. You don`t know that, Dwane. And by the way, what cops are saying, Dwane, tonight.
CATES: We`re all just speculating here.
COSBY: Cops are saying tonight they have evidence.
CATES: We don`t know anything really.
COSBY: Cop are saying they have evidence. You`re saying cops made it up? Is that what you`re telling me, Dwane?
CATES: Cops always say they have evidence.
COSBY: Give me a break.
CATES: We haven`t seen any evidence yet.
COSBY: Give me a break. You know what, give me a break.
Jennifer, you know what, this is just incredible, what, cops are just making this whole thing up? And this poor helpless man, Jennifer --
CATES: Well, we haven`t seen any evidence yet.
COSBY: -- and -- so --
SMETTERS: Yes. You know what --
COSBY: Yes, give me a break.
SMETTERS: Bottom line, I agree, Rita, this man intended to cause bodily harm to the extent that it may lead to loss of life. Whether or not he intended her to go through the window, he sure intended for her to have bodily harm so severe that he followed up with it on the ground. And there is no defense to that. Self-defense, that`s a joke.
CATES: There`s psychological defense to that.
COSBY: Dwane --
SMETTERS: Drugs is not vindication.
CATES: Have we had a mental health evaluation? Do we know if he`s got psychosis?
SMETTERS: Psychological --
COSBY: And -- OK, and Dwane, and Dwane --
CATES: Do we know anything?
COSBY: And Dwane, is that excuse? Dwane, is that an excuse for this behavior? You`re trying to say, oh, the poor man, he`s got issues. You know what, guess what these are now clinging to their life tonight.
CATES: No, not issues.
CATES: If he can`t tell the difference between right and wrong and he`s had a psychotic break and he`s got schizophrenia, he`s got voices in his head that`s telling him to do this --
COSBY: You know where he loses it? You know where -- first of all --
COSBY: At this point, Dwane, we don`t know if he has any mental issues. And guess what, he was smart enough to know --
CATES: We don`t.
COSBY: -- I got to run. And guess what, he`s -- again, he tells his family members what happened, he`s claiming self-defense, he was smart enough at that point, and guess what, he was smart enough to find a hiding spot like a refrigerator. You explain that one, Kirby Clements.
CLEMENTS: He hid in a refrigerator, that in and of itself is the craziest thing that you can do. That`s proof that something was going wrong with the man.
COSBY: He -- you know what, you know what he`s doing, Kirby, at that point? He`s hiding because he knows everybody`s on to him because he did this horrific crime. Guess what? He knew right from wrong, Kirby.
CLEMENTS: Just because -- no, he -- I just want --
CLEMENTS: We don`t know whether he had drug problems and if he was -- he had a mental breakdown. He hides in a refrigerator, which is indicative of something crazy going on there, so just because he did something that makes sense, doesn`t mean that his -- that the world according to him at that time was actually making sense. There`s so much more to be uncovered in this case. But I think that -- you know, and it may end up to his benefit.
COSBY: And everybody, we are taking your calls. Be sure also to follow us on Facebook and Twitter.
Let`s go to Amy from Alabama who is on the line. Amy, what`s your question tonight?
AMY, CALLER FROM ALABAMA: Yes, ma`am, I have two comments and one question.
AMY: OK. Comment is, these defense attorneys, I`m a survivor of domestic violence, thank god I`m out alive and well. These defense attorneys, whatever you claim, I mean, drugs, alcohol, mental, what difference does that make? He knew what he was doing when he was climbing out that window. And he knew what he was doing in the apartment with the lady.
And I`m praying for the lady. I hope she survives. I hope her friend survives and lord know that this baby survives.
But my question is, this looks like an apartment where several people live. I wish I was one of them neighbors, it`s 7:00 in the morning and you got neighbors? Where were all these people that live in this apartment? The young man didn`t look that big.
COSBY: You know, and Amy, you bring up some great questions. First of all, obviously, you`re a real hero that you survived domestic abuse and you know how bad and terrible it can be. I`m glad you called in.
Michael Board, real quick, I think Amy`s question is a really important one, too, about the neighbors. I bet it sounds like neighbors called the cops in this case, they probably saw a lot and heard a lot probably.
BOARD: I`m sure they did. And I can`t wait for trial because I`m sure the prosecutors in this case will put some of those neighbors on the stand and say, what did you hear that morning, when you started hearing notices and fighting and screams and people screaming for their lives down stairs? What did you hear? Did you look at out your window? Did you see this woman falling three stories down to the ground?
And after she fell three stories, what did you see after that? Did you see this person go down and then beat her with a bar stool? That`s going to be some compelling evidence once this goes to trial.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: He pushed them both out a three-story window, crashing to the ground below. Bruno climbed down a fire escape, the three stories, picked up a table, he beat his ex-girlfriend again with the table as she lay in critical condition.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: And I`m Rita Cosby in for Nancy Grace. Let`s continue with your calls, everybody.
Hayley from Louisiana, you`re on the line. What is your question, Hayley?
HAYLEY, CALLER FROM LOUISIANA: My question is if the mama and the baby is OK, and I have another question, like --
COSBY: Real quick, Haley, if you could.
HAYLEY: Wondering like, if it`s -- we can`t, like, just, like, beat our kids anymore, not beat them but spank them. My son just beat his wife up this weekend and she got, like, life flown to the hospital in Michigan. And I`m also surviving --
COSBY: Hayley, Hayley --
HAYLEY: -- domestic violence myself and stuff.
COSBY: Hayley, let me -- let me just, because you`re a survivor, I want to make sure I give us some time but -- and first of all, thank goodness that you are OK because so often, these instances end up in death and are very, very -- in this case, it came very, very close.
Let me go to Michael Board, because, Hayley, you asked a very important question about the health.
What is the status of the mother who did miraculously survive, as Hayley did, obviously, domestic abuse, too? But give us a sense of what happened in this case. How is the mother, how is the friend and how is the baby, Michael Board?
BOARD: The mother -- the mother of the child is in a medically induced coma. She is not doing great. She is alive, but, you know, it is a tough situation right now. The child, amazingly, is in critical condition. The child is alive, like mom, struggling right now, but both of them are alive. The friend, the one that was stabbed, the first person that was stabbed allegedly in this case, they`re doing really good. They should be released any hour now.
COSBY: Dr. William Morrone, medical examiner, why a medically induced coma for the ex-girlfriend and the mom?
DR. WILLIAM R. MORRONE, MEDICAL EXAMINER; FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST, TOXICOLOGIST: The most important thing is there may be damage to the airway and to help her heal, when you`re in critical condition, there are four things. Vital signs are not stable, vital signs not normal limits, the patient may be unconscious and indicators are not favorable.
Those things may mean she needs her airway to heal and to spend less energy, they medically induce a coma so she can sleep. It`s easier to take care of her that way.
COSBY: Well, let`s pray that in this case that she survives and the friend survived and thank goodness the baby has survived, an amazing story.
And tonight, let stop to remember Army Private First Class Patrick Fitzgibbon, just 19 years old, from Knoxville, Tennessee, he was killed in Afghanistan. He was awarded the Bronze Star, the Purple Heart and the National Defense Service medal. He loved video games, skateboarding and playing the guitar. He leaves behind his parents, Donnie and Trish, four brothers and one sister.
Patrick Fitzgibbon, a true American hero.
And I want to thank all of you for your very kind words about the recent passing of my hero, my father, Lt. Richard Cosby. My father was a prisoner of war in World War II, saved by American troops, and in his honor, we are raising money for the USO helping wounded troops and their families. Go to quiethero.org. You`ve got to quick on the words "quiet hero" or click on the USO box and be sure to say, "In memory of Richard Cosby," to help our troops.
And also tonight, we want to wish a speedy recovery to Jo in Georgia.
Jo, we hope you get well soon. There you are smiling and looking terrific.
I am Rita Cosby, I`m in for Nancy Grace. Dr. Drew is coming up next. I hope all of you have a fantastic evening. I will see you tomorrow, everyone.